Forum:Liberapedia Debate

Forums: Index > Spin Room >

''Conservative Wiki challenged Liberapedia to a debate, then when it appeared to us that they were losing suddenly the rules changed so we weren’t allowed to add links that helped us make our points.

''The debate as of Feb 11th 2012 has been copied here with the links restored, many users have accounts at Conservative Wiki but not here, also many posts here were originally on userpages at Conservative Wiki and these links were removed.

Here, we plan to debate Liberapedia on the issues.

Economic Issues

 * Why have conservatives taken a fiscally liberal economic policies, when taxes were highest in the 50s, and why do they want to lower taxes now that is lower than it ever has been before?


 * Why do conservatives complain about Government Mandated Health Care when the Heritage Foundation, Romney, and Gingrich proposed the same thing?


 * I prefer to refrain from debating what parties have done in the past and focus on what policies can do for the future. Regarding Health Care, Romney proposed it on a state level. In his sate, Massachusetts, the people favored it 3 to 1. Romney has always favored Governors doing what's best to fit their own state. He never said the Massachusetts plan should be adopted nationally. Gingrich favors some parts of Obamacare, like the preexisting conditions part, but he does not agree with the individual mandate. 00:01, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * "I'm proud of what we've done, If Massachusetts succeeds in implementing it, then that will be a model for the nation." - W. M. Romney Not all Conservatives are stupid But most stupid people are Conservative 00:26, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * A model for the rest of the states to look at and possibly copy. He never said it should be implemented on a federal level. 01:19, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

How people performed in the past affects the way they will likely perform in the future is we should take past performance into account. Incidentally United States health care is on trouble and needs reform. Even Greece and Chile, despite the problems there keep their citizens alive longer than the United States, see [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2065548/U-S-ranks-28th-life-expectancy-pay-MOST-health-care.html What's killing America? U.S. ranks 28th in life expectancy (lower than Chile and Greece) while it pays the MOST for health care]. Proxima Centauri 13:48, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

The thing is, high taxes has worked in the past. During the 50-70s the economy and businesses were doing great. The Bush tax cuts proved that they didn't create any jobs and added to the defecit. Not all Conservatives are stupid But most stupid people are Conservative 19:21, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Bush's tax policies were not the problem. Spending was not reduced at the level it should have been. Both Governor Romney and Speaker Gingrich have outlined plans to dramatically cut wasteful spending. This decreases the deficit and creates jobs.

Social Issues
''I'm trying to track down and copy all Liberapedia based debate here.  Note: I don’t have time to write my debating points in detail, I got into this debate mainly because User:Omashu Rocks and User:Mectrixctic were keen. To see the points I’m making properly please follow the links I made to Liberapedia articles etc. Proxima Centauri 13:51, February 9, 2012 (UTC)''

You would like me to debate you, that's cool please give me a link. Note: I study politics throughout the world including, for example happy Denmark, I care about more than the United States. Proxima Centauri 16:56, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry that Mitt Romney won a nomination because Mitt Romney is a Flip Flopper, sitll I don't think the other Republicans are better. Proxima Centauri 10:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Well, being that you're liberal, I don't see why you'd have a problem with our nominee being "liberal" like you claim he is. I understand that Barack Obama has never once in his life changed his mind on anything, and that he is the perfect creation sent down from God to lead us into the promise land, but I'd be more than happy with Governor Romney becoming President Romney. Thank you. 00:41, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Omashu Rocks [http://liberapedia.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Ajuk#We_don.27t_come_in_peace. challenged us] at Liberapedia but I know it’s you and other Conservative adults I will really be debating. You’ll get up on your hind legs to defend Conservative cubs. Anyway I’ll start a debate with you, here goes. I’m curious to see how you’ll deal with this. Proxima Centauri 08:07, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) How do you justify the intolerance in the United States Bible Belt?
 * 2) How do you explain the bad social record in the United States Bible Belt? It’s clear to me Conservative Christian values do harm.
 * 3) How do you explain the differences between what Conservative Christians teach and what Jesus taught? See Religious Right.

Your questions will be hard to answer, as their premise is false. However, I will attempt to answer your frivolous requests if you would in turn explain to me why you guys at Liberapedia are obsessed with religious issues.
 * 1) Again, the premise is false. The map of your so-called "Bible Belt" displays several states in which I've visited on numerous occasions. There, I saw racial minorities and even homosexuals living happily among the others. Your page also suggests that Christians are intolerant to other races, despite there being plenty of Black, Hispanic, Asian, and gay Christians across the world.
 * 2) As for the bad record of this "Bible Belt", I must again point out that the premise of your question is false. Are the statistics you have on your page true? I don't really care, but I do think it's wrong to take one geographic area and see how many negative things you can say about it. Do you realize that many of your Liberapedia users may live in that area? I'm particularly interested by your mention of high STD rates, as San Francisco seems to wear that crown.
 * 3) Jesus taught that having faith along with working hard was the best way to succeed. He never said that anything should be handed to people for free by the federal government. He also spoke about the preciousness of all life and marriage.

I wouldn't count out Omashu Rocks either. He founded the wiki and he seems to know everything about politics. 23:08, February 7, 2012 (UTC)

We aren't obsessed with religion at Liberapedia, most of our articles are about general politics. Still we dislike how your type try to force Christian morality specifically Republican morality onto the rest of us. Proxima Centauri 18:24, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not forcing any religious morality on you, although you're attempting to force yours on me. I quite frankly don't care what faiths other people practice, but in this nation, politicians and public figures have the right to be outspoken about their religious beliefs. They even have the right to vote based on faith if that's what they promised when they were running. Could you list some examples of politicians you feel are attempting to force faith on others? By the way, there's a chat room where we could have an easier debate. We could even have a Liberapedia vs. Conservative Wiki fight! 01:31, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

So you think Americans should be free to campaign and if elected vote on faith issues. That means in an equal and democratic system opponents of faith based positions should be free to point out the harm we feel dogmatic faith causes. I’ll give just one example, religious objections to Stem cell research prevent sick people getting better. Liberapedia approves of Stem cell research as well. If you vote for candidates who are pledged to prevent stem cell research you are forcing your morality onto sick people who want the cures stem cell research may provide. Proxima Centauri 10:22, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

Sarah Palin thinks we should "Create laws based on the law of the bible" @4:45, but watch all of it. Gingrich says atheists should not hold public office. Santorum's moral's is christian morals and should be forced on the rest of us. I could find more but I only had 10 minutes to look. Here are also some examples of christian morality laws in effect. 64.28.248.125 15:02, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

I can't speak for Proxima Centauri, but my morals as an atheist are based on the constitution and declaration of independence. My morality IS forced on you by the founding fathers via the constitution. Furthermore, 'We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.' First, notice the usage of 'their creator'. That phrase was carefully chosen by Jefferson, those words are INCLUSIVE to atheists (or deists in his time) since my creator is nature itself. Any law on marriage to define it in a christian scope or ANY kind of christian morality laws are unconstitution because of the first amendment: 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof'. 64.28.248.125 15:58, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Both documents are hundreds of years old. While they contain many great things, t is irrational to hold them as dogma. Furthermore, the DoI is not in any way law.
 * I am gonna assume this is satire? Someone from that RatWiki no doubt... I never claimed the DoI was law, only that I respect the text and agree with it very much. I also never claimed to hold the constitution as dogma, I have read and studied it and have determined for myself that it is a thing I can mostly agree with (except for the 3/5s of a person bit). But that goes into what is great about the constitution and what is great about the scientific revolution of the enlightenment in general. The constitution is a living document and allows change which is fucking amazing. It was one of the first Wikis LOL. 64.28.248.125 14:31, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

“In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.” [Carl Sagan, 1987 CSICOP keynote address]

I don't accuse Mamma Grizly personally of forcing her religion onto others, though her type of Republican Christian does that. Republican heroine, Michele Bachmann contributed to creating a social climate where school kids who were gay or were considered gay (teens don't always know their sexual orientation) were driven to suicide, see One Town's War on Gay Teens. When I and other Liberapedians are concerned about that type of religiously motivated abuse I think we are being reasonable. Proxima Centauri 20:35, February 9, 2012 (UTC)